What’s wrong with Linux? In this video, Jay and @RaidOwl discuss some of the issues that surround Linux and prevent wider …
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What’s wrong with Linux? In this video, Jay and @RaidOwl discuss some of the issues that surround Linux and prevent wider …
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I've been an I.T guy for the better part of 2.5 decades, my career, however has been 90% Windows. Only in the last 12 years as a field engineer did i have to work with a Linux based OSs (Redhat core), i hated the steep learning curve because of the complexity of the learning curve. Since then i have been desperate to transition over to Linux because of the invasion that Windows is forcing on end users… The invasion into your privacy, the invasion into what you own and dont own (even though you paid for it) the invasion into what hardware or software you can and can't use with their OS. Its absolutely mindblowing the audacity these companies have! So yes for me it was an obvious choice. I run several flavours of Linux in my home lab, among them are Proxmox, Ubuntu server and even a favour of Mint on a laptop and a mini desktop. But still i find that i still use Windows on my daily driver because of the exact reason Brett said… It's familiar.
I like that there is so many different distros out there, but even i know that at their core, all of them use the same kernels. Why dont they all bake all of the most common drivers and use case related packages and libaries in to the kernel and then just develop the rest of the OS into all the different distros as they see fit? Why do these distros have to complicate things so much?
Like what i believe Brett was eluding too, if they primarily focussed on just making Linux user friendly to the end user rather then to the developer, more people would be willing to switch to Linux OS. I mean isn't that what Android, ChromeOS and Apple did? They are Linux based but they were easy for the general public to adopt. If Linux desktop OS did the same they would dominate (just mho). Drivers are a large problem with Linux desktop OS (Nvidia/AMD GPU drivers) and yes i get that the issues are 3rd party license related, but they are still available to install by end users which, for gamers, and other end users alike will inevitably be installed, why not just bake them straight in? For a Linux novice they're an absolute PITA to get them installed and working. This leads me to asking for help and running into the RTFM wall… Its stupid and petty.
Even now after having been using these Mint installations the Nvidia cards were fairly headache free, it worked pretty much out the box, my gaming rig with AMD GPU, was a headache, so much so, i reinstalled Windows. The Linux community needs to adopt the K.I.S.S mantra.
Flash drive handling.
As for my thoughts on this video I agree with everything and its well said. I myself started using Linux when you were able to order CDs online and get them in the mail 😂 I eventually gave up using it, but it was interesting it just never piqued my interest. Now, many years later I really sat down and really gave Linux/GNU a try 😉and as nerd I'm not a noob when it comes to computers but, there's definitely a learning curve when it comes to Linux. I quickly learned what Linux is and what its not. Its not like Windows or macOS. I took a deep dive in what in terms of cameras the holy trinity Debian, Arch & Fedora (in no particular order) maybe openSUSE is in there somewhere but, I'm not familiar with that distro. The different package managers were/is something I had to get use to- I like the universal package managers, but I've also seen problem with those not a lot, but I've ran into issue where if I'm using a flatpak for example there are issues with GUI because of how it was package and that its better to use the system package because of xyz…. so its hard to swallow and this is just one issue it goes deeper than what I'm explaining, and this is what "end users" don't really care about they just want it to work. While I listen to your video I get optimistic because I want to see a future like you'll do and just like you said we're the marketing team behind Linux. So I pledge to do my part. I hope one day I will get to see a better future of Linux starting to dominate the market its slowly getting there. Its the year of Linux after-all 😉I personally will be creating a channel and eventually a site to teach people about Linux just like yourself Jay you alongside a lot of other Youtubers have been a inspiration to me and I want to do this for you hahah, but not only that I want to do this for the betterment of the world. We don't have to rely on Microsoft and Apple as much as we do and more people need to see that.
It's amazing how far Linux has come. I remember first using it in the late 90s, Red Hat 5.2 at the time. Hardware support was nearly nonexistent unless you had old vanilla hardware. If you bought the latest sound card for instance, thinking it would work was a pipe dream. It could've been literally a couple years before it was supported.
27:00 Thats the issue right there. Windows & Mac are just what people know. Just like Android and iPhone. Its sad to say, but it'll take a tremendously long time for what we'd like Linux to truly become especially where its at now. Where I see Linux excelling is when M$ or Mac truly start becoming a monopoly or when our privacy truly starts getting worse than it already is and using Linux is and STILL is the only way to minimize the impact of our privacy. It won't get rid of it as much as one would like as long you use the internet you're screwed. Sure there are ways around it, but only far in few will go through those steps.
Great conversation. Thanks for filming this. I'm definitely not a Linux noob, but you still put words to issues I couldn't define nearly as well
I had the exact experience you're talking about at 38:50 : trying Ubuntu and not being able to upgrade OpenOffice because it wasn't in the repo. When I asked why in the Ubuntu forum, instead of an answer I got questioned "what do you need the latest version for, what exact features are so important to you?". In general, I found the forum a genuinely unhelpful, scornful and toxic vipers den.
Sure, you can solve most Linux issues if you dedicate a weekend to it every so often, but I'd rather have a life. I've kept away from desktop Linux since first trying it and its' forums.
The problems with Linux could be summarized in two things:
– People use operating systems as a application platform.
– People want a product, not a project.
45 drives = too expensive for home server. End of story.
39:57 This is my biggest annoyance with non-rolling distros and the reason I don't care for the snap haters. The stability excuse is just that, an excuse. Installing the latest GIMP, Go or Python on Windows or Mac is trivial. On Linux, each of these needs a different approach, usually invasive to the OS.
I am 52 years old I tried Linux Foodora since the beginning of 2000. In those days we didn't know Wi-Fi and I found a problem in using my printer and accessing the Internet via Ethernet because there is no drivers for them in Linux.
After about 7 years I installed Ubuntu in my laptop and again I can not connect to the WIFI because of the driver problem.
I think Linux developers fixed a lot of these problems and I will try Linux in on anther SSD in my desktop.
The problem with linux can be boiled down to 1 thing really. It's simply too complicated. Until grandma can use it just by clicking here, it will never become more popular.
I don't think you can do a proper Linux trial on Mac hardware, frankly. Try it out for 30 days on hardware that isn't so proprietary up the wazoo like Mac is, then report back. Apple purposefully makes their hardware so that only their software and drivers work on it. To me, trying out Linux on that is not creating an even playing field. But that's just my opinion.
Raid Owl? You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel Jay.
I think that the biggest problem with Linux is the fact that there aren't very many people who ACTUALLY, COGNITIVELY recognise, that the very thing that they love the most, is imperfect.
Whenever you ask a question about a problem or an error that you encountered, they get so defensive as though you just called their baby ugly.
That's NOT the issue.
The issue is what's captured either via a copy-and-paste of the error message or, if you're not in a position to capture that, to take a picture of the monitor.
When you recount your experiences (with using Linux, where you've ran into problems), Linux fanbois would tell you that you're wrong, until you produce the receipts (pictures/screenshots) and then they are, interestingly enough, they get VERY quiet after that.
THAT is, what I think, is the biggest problem with the Linux community — where they will ridicule, belittle, berate, etc. you, calling you all KIND of names, but the moment that you show them the picture of your monitor of the Linux kernel panic, then all of a sudden, they get very, very, very quiet from people who used to be very loud, when they were ridiculing, belittling, and berating you.
That is, what I've found, to be the biggest problem.
There are some that will actually try (or at least attempt to try) to help you figure out what went wrong.
But there are quite a number who don't/won't.
Problem with Linux: move /home directory to 2nd drive. Why is this task a pain to execute?
Learn Linux, I am a fan of your channel. This interview is a L for your channel. The interviewee was not clear why he hates Linux. I am not Linux fanboy and there are lot issues with drivers, hardware, etc. Installing a Linux distro requires careful thought. And 22 days of testing is not enough!
Please get knowledgeable guests.
I think Brett is using wrong platform to do his work. Why would you use Photoshop on Linux! Weird. So, it is not a Linux failure rather than Brett's ask.
You say software repositories are not great on the way they are run today? You should check out the nix package manager
In response to RTFM. What's worse, being told to do some very basic research or to be completely ignored? IE: what if every day someone comes in and asks what temp water boils at? Everyone on the forum is so over answering something that takes 5 seconds to google that the person just gets completely ignored. So they come back the next day to ask the same thing to get the same response. Rinse and repeat. Eventually they'll get just as pissed off at being ignored. I would rather be called an idiot for a basic question than completely ignored.
Nice conversation! Initially curious about Linux, and therefore next to Windows, but over time I switched. Mainly for safety reasons. Long time Ubuntu user but now with Fedora. The problems with snaps in particular were the deciding factor for me. And my smart TV will probably also run on Linux.
@railowl is correct. Creating a fixed link to a NAS share, did put me into a jungle of commands, and was not able to that except,. exce[t for a not passworded NFS share. But not SMB.
I got it running, but had to run the gazillion of commands every day.
Second item, I rely on Microsoft Exchange. Having an MAPI mailbox is impossible even to test out. It either did not work out, or a add for a mailpackage costs money. But I could test. But the test version was revoked half a second after installation. As the trial time was over by 2 monthes earlier.
I had given up and went back to Windows 11.
And if you ask somewhere for help, the standard answer is: Why use MAPI? That is crap, it is Mickeysoft. Use IMAP. I know it excists. But MAPI does do a bit more/different then IMAP, like addressbooks, send mail, notes, calendars etc.
By the way, I started with DOS 3.21. Build batchfiles myself. Got it all working. Linux feels a bit like that. You have a gui, but as soon as you want something, you go back to the command prompt.
I share the confusion over aversion to gui tools. When I first tried linux, I got my hands on a Mandrake install cd (in 2004, if I remember correctly) which was known for its "wizards". I ran into all sorts of hardware issues, but it actually ran extremely stable which was quite the contrast with Windows ME (which I was trying to replace). Over the years, I kept going back to Suse (Novell, Opensuse, whatever) partly due to Yast. It may be a silly acronym, but it does have tools for most things you want to do. If you are comfortable with the terminal, it may be easier and faster, but the gui is there for people that are either new or simply don't care to use the terminal at all. It isn't as though the terminal will go away or quit working if good gui tools exist.
Jay says that we should celebrate differences, and that criticizing other choices is a negative thing that hinders the advancement of Linux as a community, while at the same time saying that all distributions should stop packaging certain packages and that this is up to other formats? The question is, if someone sees value in a certain format, for any application, and has enough resources, why should they stop packaging it? Isn't this difference of opinion what makes the community even stronger?
In my opinion, we are not communists or socialists, or anything like that, so if it is free software, it is free software, we will collaborate as far as our differences allow us, without needing to preach that a certain option should die, for certain cases, in favor of the other, this type of understanding will weaken our creative capacity as a community and introduce possibilities for the creation of format monopolies. Yes, different options have high costs, introduce fragmentation, etc., but that is exactly the price paid for the power of freedom of choice.
I suggest people start reading The General Public License or GPL for short. This will better explain why gnu/linux will never be controlled by x entity or have a certain way of doing things. GPL exists for this particular reason. Also, people are misunderstanding of the meaning of "free". Its not what it think it means. In fact, the GPL is pretty much built on that principle.
We need industry standard software. Linux folks hate it so no company/professional is using Linux.
Desktop Linux targets private users and some programmers (that need very basic software).
The OS itself works fine but who is working with only the OS?
I've been an Electrical Engineer and software developer for over 45 years, and I think that Linux and the whole concept of "open source" are ultimately doomed to failure. When your business model relies on anonymous people who work for free, they will ONLY do what they enjoy and think is fun. In the real world however, in order to get good, high quality products, you need to work on things that are difficult and painful, and you need to follow quality standards that ensure the end product will be good. That's why in the business world you find people who are provably qualified and pay them. Relying on a "community" of anonymous people with unknown skills (if any) who are driven solely by ego and emotion, is like herding cats, or, in the business world, "Decision by Committee". Ultimately inefficient and ineffective. And it raises the question "if you're a skilled developer, why spend all this time working for free when you could be paid working for a big company?". And for some insane reason, the internet is the only place on planet Earth where people ACTUALLY think they're entitled to free stuff. That's not a viable business model. At the end of the day, an OS's sole function is to allow you to run your important apps. Why there are fanboys for operating systems like Linux is beyond me. Who cares? The number 1 question to answer when considering switching to a new OS is WHY? I've tried on and off for many years to find a reason to run Linux. But each time I'm faced with having to run command line nonsense (almost as painful as typing FORTRAN punch cards in the '70s), finding it doesn't run most of my engineering, software development and other apps, the likelihood of getting useful support from ego-driven fanboys using over 600 different distributions is nil, and many more issues, I've pretty much given up. Yeah, when W10 support ends next year and a bunch of naive people jump to Linux, there will be a bump in Linux use. Just be prepared for the backlash when they realize what they've gotten into.
One of my biggest frustration with some of the Linux discourse about "RTFM" and "UI is unnecessary", is how even Microsoft manages to be freakin better at this somehow, at least for noobs.
I'm not a "coding man", but sometimes I try stuff, and I was absolutely surprised by how I generally have a much better time experimenting with Powershell or Windows terminal in general thanks to the pretty solid documentation Microsoft put out, mostly thanks to the numerous usecases and examples they showcase.
Meanwhile, I feel that every time I try to do anything more advanced than changing my hostname on Linux, documentation is either too old, too obscure, incomplete, or just plain unusable for the common folk.
It's like as soon as you fall outside the lines of "casual user that do everything in a browser" and "full time developer", you're in for a rough ride.
In the end, using Debian as my main workstation for 3 years absolutely soured my enthousiasm for Linux on desktop, and having problems on my 2 Ubuntu install was just the cherry on top.
I couldn't believe how getting a Windows 11 workstation felt like a relief after that. Not that it's perfect (lol). But man, having stuff just works like Bluetooth is so nice sometimes.
Edit: 42:08 ("rant" about LibreOffice) LibreOffice was one of the big reason I just hated working on my Linux workstation! Now I wonder how much it was because of LibreOffice as a whole or just its old version. I may begrundgingly try it once more before keeping hating on it.
This is also mentioned but explained by Linus himself
Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks
https://youtu.be/Pzl1B7nB9Kc?si=F16390OXRgkmO6f1