How Strong is Baby Vegeta?

“I’m the Baby! Gotta Love Me!”

(Continue down for QnA)…

Q1. NUMBS! YOU ARE OBJECTIVELY WRONG ABOUT THE MOVIES! THEY ARE CANON TO GT! IDIOT!
A: Nothing I say will change your mind. I don’t care if you disagree. But to those who are more open-minded, be aware of the evidence I presented. Koyama who wrote the movies agrees with different continuities, so does Toriyama, so does the guidebooks, the anime has plenty of continuity inconsistencies, even the video games supports multiverse theory. The only argument at that point is “but the villains are too strong for that arc” or “but it follows the timeline” which is an example of hasty generalization fallacy and Appealing to Incredulity fallacy. Now that said, I know I did included movie scaling anyways, but regardless, I refused to act bias towards GT just to push a weird agenda to devalue Super or overhype GT. Unless you have another valid argument, I could care less if you think I’m wrong since this video is mostly for the sake of entertainment and being informative. Rather than real pushing the agenda that GT Goku solos fiction.

Q2. Why did you argue Baby is possibly above the likes of either Buuhan and Kid Buu or Gogeta and Vegito?
A: To those who don’t know, Buuhan Vs. Kid Buu is such an infamous contentious topic. Personally, tho, my opinions on the shouldn’t influence my outlook on Baby’s abilities. That's why for the sake of TRYING to have an unbiased viewpoint, I simply wanted to present that Baby CAN or COULD surpass whichever buu you yourself think is the strongest. That includes Vegito and Gogeta. If you think Buuhan is stronger, great, Baby might scale to him. If you think Kid Buu is stronger, great, Baby might scale to him as well. Regardless, I was simply explaining his eventual development of power that made him comparable to Buu since he was awakened and likely surpassed him by the time he reaches his transformations. So please don’t assume I claimed one or the other is stronger, it was simply the best visual reference for the viewer to better comprehend Baby’s threat level.

Q3. Why did you compare the Sugoroku space lore to Super?
A: People may not like to admit it but its very clear that not many casual fans or scalers and debaters truly understand dimensional scaling on a technical level. Granted, even for real life scientists, the topics about mathematical dimensions is very difficult and contentious. That said, there has been this miasma of false claims about GT Goku being some outerversal being. Now there are more better ways to go about it, but the sugoroku space argument was a very misunderstood example and one I had to make sure to clarify. More often than not, I see people go for the highest interpretation as the ONLY VALID interpretation, when the story itself disproves those beliefs. So if you are angry at me about this topic, sorry but unless there is better argumentations, you’re not gonna see me change my perspective given how its explained in the series itself.

Q4. Whats your deal with Baby’s speed.
A: Again, im very lenient on the whole other world cosmology scaling. I PERSONALLY don’t preach that it must be some outerversal reality or a 12D reality of sorts. But I know people do believe it does in fact have no flow of time. I’m just here to explain ALL possible interpretations and allow you to come up with your own conclusions. Hence why Baby’s speed was a topic I didn’t harp on too much compared to his power.

Q5. Dragon Ball heroes is not outerversal Numbers. What are you talking about?
A: Admittedly, I could have done better to further breakdown Heroes lore. However if you noticed, Baby barely has much of a presence in Heroes so it felt unnecessary to extend the video for another hour when Baby is not given much justification to have valid scaling to it. Even if I said Heroes was Complex Multiversal or something less exaggerated than Outerversal, people would still question if Baby can be allowed the same scaling all because of minor cameos. Hence why I somewhat jokingly yet acknowledge the Dr.Slump scaling and Sugoroku space lore IN CASE people think its totally valid to claim he can reach those levels. Thats up to you of course if that is consistent or not.

Q6: How valid are the guidebooks you used?
A: Much like most sources, its a case-by-case topic. The perfect files, daizenshuu, and chouzenshuu are valid materials, while others like GT La Revista or the Spanish DBS Guidebook were more so non-Shueisha supplementary material. Again, this video IS a composite overview of baby, so I still consider it applicable. Even the official guidebooks have minor errors, but even Toriyama finds them valid to use, so trying to devalue the entire sets of books for the sake of having a biased opinion because of a grammar mistake or whatever is not a valid excuse for me to ignore the material so long as it provides a noncontradictory evidence.

Btw, i did make a minor mistake, Giru did not in fact showed goku use SSJ1 against ledgic to the Sigma Force. He did obviously use the form for the fight but I guess Giru was not able to record such battle data or lied about such info.
Anyways, Long story short, GT is not as strong as people make it out to be. I don’t support the need to overhype GT just for the sake of hating on Super. That said, please try to be civilized when discussing with others about GT and Super scaling. I don’t hate GT more or less than I do Super. It doesn’t change the fact I want to be consistent to the information provided and make an entertaining video for the community to get a kick out of it. Otherwise, you do you, i’m just an idiot with too much free time. 🙂

38:20 full circle moment XD i love it

See I like to High ball GT, and Super and I’d Argue Baby Power peaks into the realm of like super Saiyan black in super, and his Ape forces them to fuse with Zamasu and then he loses. I’d argue super 17 could most of Super if you take his power into consideration and he’s one on one. IMO super does beat GT, but not by that much and I’d argue omega and 17 are haxed enough to bring a gauntlet to the TOP and I don’t think they can touch Moro. I just think GT keeps up better, than most people would consider. Cause that revenge death ball is cracked fun stuff.

You misinterpreted what Koyama was saying. Yes he said It would "better fit" If you separated Movies and anime. However he has already stated multiple times before that to him the Movies and the anime are connected. Now you could try to say that the anime is not a different dimension while the Movies are a different dimension for Toriyama, which would matter more than Koyama's opinion. However, Toriyama NEVER Said that the anime is connected to the manga. He only Said that the Movies are not connected to THE MANGA. So in fact there is no contradiction to Koyama's opinion that the anime and Movies are connected.

"But Goku said he only came to Hell One time". I am skeptical of that translation because i have already seen Another similar translation concerning Goku and Vegeta having only fused once, but in fact that line was never there in the original Japanese audio when i checked. So i will check the audio of that LINE to confirm this. However even If the sub is correct, that doesn't mean GT Goku was only in Hell once. The reason for that is that he Said he FELL DOWN INTO HELL ONCE, which means he is not saying that he was only One time in Hell. He simply said that he FELL from Snake Way into HELL only ONCE.

Furthermore there are many other pieces of evidence that the movies connect to the anime and therefore connect to GT. Ikarus(the Dragon) appears First in the Movies and then reappears in the anime; Garlick Jr is in the anime and movies; Cooler appears in GT; Furthermore in GT Vegeta stated that he could RECOGNIZE the ki of A TUFFLE. That would be IMPOSSIBLE If the Hatchiyak special was not canon, because Vegeta was not even alive when the Tuffles existed, and furthermore, he did not know How to feel ki back then.

"But every Movie is a separate timeline". False. Practically every Movie connects with one Another. In Fusion Reborn you see almost every single Movie character from past Movies. Movie guidebooks and such also confirm that connection. Also the quote you brought from Toriyama also claims that EVERY SINGLE MOVIE IS A SINGLE DIMENSION.

So since the DBS anime is a continuation of the anime with no Toriyama involvement then it's not canon either huh since the manga is every bit as different than the manga? Im fine with that since i actually like the dbs manga but the anime sucks

I would love to see a game make a Super Hatchiyack and Baby fusion and have it be story relavent. Perhaps for a Sparking Zero DLC, it could focus on Plan to Eradicate the Sayians and Baby saga (as there are a few missing Baby and Vegeta forms as well as a few missing characters such as Rildo.) Where Hachiyack gets both his giant form and Super form. Then on top of that Baby uses the Earth Dragon Balls to revive Hatchiyack so the two can fight together as the pinacles of the Tuffle race. Or something dumb and fun like that, I wish more Tuffle characters showed up in Dragon Ball media.

You could argue Super Saiyan 2 Baby is stronger than Super Vegito, because he says he has the greatest Saiyan power in history, and Goku does not disagree with him

Later on, in the Shadow Dragon arc, SSJ4 Goku & Vegeta retain their memories of what happened after defusing from Gogeta, remembering everything that happened in their absence

GT infact has most of the movies cannon to it. most agree on it

Subspace is Outer but not sugoruku n HTC

5D subspace is logically disingenuous

3:26 Vegeta always fucks it up at least once before making Gogeta the right way

The movies r literally cannon to the GT timeline bro idk what to tell u🤷

Ngl God KI aint that crazy buff when you remember Jiren beating SSJB Goku

While i am not good with this type of scaling suoer baby 2 should be able to hokd his own in the universe 6 tournament probably falling around the lvl of goku and Vegeta ssjg forms and in golden great ape rivaling the blue forms of goku and Vegeta along with initial hit but falling well below peak hit and ssjb kaiokenx10 goku only using his scaling from the anime