I cannot stress this enough, you don't want to use the system administrator account as your daily driver. You become significantly more vulnerable to malware for even having that account enabled, and if you do somehow get infected with malware, it becomes easier for said malware to affect protected system files. If you do anything important on your PC, it's not worth the performance gains.
every game will run at higher a few FPS on non admin, just bc it is less resource intense, for intel chips too. amd lol trying to make it seem like their zen 5 is better than it is
a "bug" actually makes sense, since it works better on Linux than in Windows. Extremely weird because it happened just after the biggest technological fail of all time (By Intel).
This is why I don't like AMD. I had a sapphire 5700 xt nitro+ and I always had to switch my settings on every game to get the best performance. Even with AMD cpu's to get the best performance you needed to change settings in the bios. Same with Ram you can't just buy the best ram and have it run. And what overclocking! The biggest upside was you can always install a new processor every year. Without having to buy a new computer. But now you have to setup your primary account as the administrator. There's a reason why the administrator is not used by default. With Intel everything works without having to tweak settings same with Nvidia. I'm not a fanboy of any brand I just want to buy something that's the best for what I do and that I can simply install something and have it work to its maximum performance right out of the box. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to play a game. When they benchmark games all the settings should be a default right? Without PBO enabled? Because if you benchmark your games while running a overclock with Intel you can also get a 20% increase in performance. With most decent Intel motherboards overclocking is a one click solution. Results may vary depending on your cooling. For an example a I9 13900K that's 2 years old still out preforms every single AMD CPU until now with a modest one click overclock.
Could this be related to thread placement across chiplets? Edit: It's nothing to do with chiplets: I sent this video to a friend running zen4 cpu, he did some more research and found that users in some discord had been doing the same test on Intel CPU's and were also seeing improvements. I run an older 10900x and ran the cp2077 benchmark with my current settings, then again after modifying properties of the Cyberpunk2077.exe – compatibility tab – check the box to Run as Administrator. Then launched the game again (I got the windows popup "do you want to allow this program to blah blah."), and then ran the bench again. +4.3% in avg fps. Not a huge gain, but it's something. I know I am CPU limited on this older Intel.
Since I ran Intel/Nvidia and also saw a perf increase, this would point to a windows or directX bug, and not the AMD cpu or video card/driver bug.
Note: Running specific .exe's as Administrator is the far safer way to go to get that bit of extra performance. I would only do this on games where you want every bit of performance. Games that run fine I would not even do the .exe Administrator Compatibility setting.
I tried the elevated privileges fix on my 5800x3D, and I got some good results! I've read that you don't want to use elevated privileges for security reasons, but I am seeing better performance. It seems to run smoother to. I don't know why. But there is a difference on AM4.
I doubt it is a "windows bug" so much as just windows crapware such as random auto-installed market apps being forced on normal user accounts but not on the admin account. On a tangent, instead of using the hidden administrator account, I'd be curious to see you or anyone test with "Run as administrator" on the normal account. If that also gets a performance boost, I guess my theory would be wrong. Another test could be to have both accounts logged in at once with "switch user" instead of "logout" from the normal account. I'd expect that to lower the results you get from the administrator account too.
This is the beauty of Companies listening to independent parties like Hardware Unboxed. Access to more Data. Companies want to produce competitive products which bring customers back, finding and fixing problems or potential problems allows companies to improve quality and perceived customer focused care. Having independent reviewers who are not 'paid' to produce favourable results is an edge which companies should consider as a potential edge on competitors who pay for 'good' reviews.
Ah yes…. Windows….. Making the computing experience worse by design each and every update. Let us not forget: "You don't Need to KNOW THESE THINGS" …. love microsoft….. Good to know…
I have downgraded to windows 10 today and with administrative account enabled, 8% improvement of average framerate. Memory usage is lower at startup. Overclocking is slightly stable than 11. Using 7800x3d +7900xtx❤
The problem is AMD..it always has been. I started in the 1980s / early 90s a proponent of Z80 and AMD. Just like games – because it "seemed" like there was more speed per dollar. Eventually I learned and grew up. There's always a cost. Just stay away from AMD and you will be better off.
I used that Administrator account on my 14700k and 7900XT gaming PC and made no difference on 3 games I use to check my computer performance. Shadow of the Tomb Raider,F1 2020 and Horizon Zero Dawn. At 4k Setting.
how does this relate to a normal account with UAC – off? and could it be related to the microsoft account? there is also a hidden option to make a ''local'' account on windows 11 without network.
It probably affects all the multi ccd chips. Their driver probably needs elevated permissions to communicate with the kernel so it can take over thread scheduling and core parking. I don’t think it’s the game itself that needs admin privileges. Maybe that’s why the thread parking part worked, because really you can do that from task manager, but the load was bouncing around from core to core a lot more than you would expect to see. That’s my guess, and probably why they say it doesn’t affect all core loads only burst.
This creates a question, last time you found windows 10 faster than Windows 11 – was it because it is actually faster or because of this bug? Anyway, please test zen 5 in windows 10
Hey HUB Team, would you please consider enabling the Join feature here on YouTube to enable support here aswell? I know I can sign up for Floatplane or Patreon, but I like to keep these things centralized and would love to support you here. I am not sure as to why you have not already enabled it here, probably as YouTube launched this feature later and also may be taking a larger cut compared to those competing platforms for support, but I would have no problem paying a little more if you adjusted your prices to reflect that, so that the net support amount would be equal for you. Thank you in advance.
Running 3 laps around the cherry blossom market gave me an avg of 79.5 with 1% low of 49.6
Did the same as administrator and got an avg of 93.8 and 1% low of 56.4
Same settings, 720p low with high crowd density.
Not an extensive test and just tested once per account so run to run variance might be skewing the results a bit. But interesting nonetheless.
EDIT: okay, so I actually decided to redo the test after posting. It seems my first test was an outlier. While I'm still consistently getting higher avg fps on admin account, it seems to be less than my initial test, with none of the admin tests getting below 90. Meanwhile on the normal account the averages end up in the mid to high 80s.
The last of us part 1: 7700x running on w11 as regular user in both videos shows exactly 175 fps in. 7700x[Admin] on w11 – 182 fps 7700x[w10] – 177 fps.
I cannot stress this enough, you don't want to use the system administrator account as your daily driver. You become significantly more vulnerable to malware for even having that account enabled, and if you do somehow get infected with malware, it becomes easier for said malware to affect protected system files. If you do anything important on your PC, it's not worth the performance gains.
Interesting point about cool. Very funny!
every game will run at higher a few FPS on non admin, just bc it is less resource intense, for intel chips too. amd lol trying to make it seem like their zen 5 is better than it is
Is the bug causing issue due to the chiplet design or P and E core design of the cpu?
a "bug" actually makes sense, since it works better on Linux than in Windows. Extremely weird because it happened just after the biggest technological fail of all time (By Intel).
This is why I don't like AMD. I had a sapphire 5700 xt nitro+ and I always had to switch my settings on every game to get the best performance. Even with AMD cpu's to get the best performance you needed to change settings in the bios. Same with Ram you can't just buy the best ram and have it run. And what overclocking! The biggest upside was you can always install a new processor every year. Without having to buy a new computer. But now you have to setup your primary account as the administrator. There's a reason why the administrator is not used by default. With Intel everything works without having to tweak settings same with Nvidia. I'm not a fanboy of any brand I just want to buy something that's the best for what I do and that I can simply install something and have it work to its maximum performance right out of the box. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to play a game. When they benchmark games all the settings should be a default right? Without PBO enabled? Because if you benchmark your games while running a overclock with Intel you can also get a 20% increase in performance. With most decent Intel motherboards overclocking is a one click solution. Results may vary depending on your cooling. For an example a I9 13900K that's 2 years old still out preforms every single AMD CPU until now with a modest one click overclock.
Could this be related to thread placement across chiplets? Edit: It's nothing to do with chiplets:
I sent this video to a friend running zen4 cpu, he did some more research and found that users in some discord had been doing the same test on Intel CPU's and were also seeing improvements. I run an older 10900x and ran the cp2077 benchmark with my current settings, then again after modifying properties of the Cyberpunk2077.exe – compatibility tab – check the box to Run as Administrator. Then launched the game again (I got the windows popup "do you want to allow this program to blah blah."), and then ran the bench again. +4.3% in avg fps. Not a huge gain, but it's something. I know I am CPU limited on this older Intel.
Since I ran Intel/Nvidia and also saw a perf increase, this would point to a windows or directX bug, and not the AMD cpu or video card/driver bug.
Note: Running specific .exe's as Administrator is the far safer way to go to get that bit of extra performance. I would only do this on games where you want every bit of performance. Games that run fine I would not even do the .exe Administrator Compatibility setting.
I tried the elevated privileges fix on my 5800x3D, and I got some good results! I've read that you don't want to use elevated privileges for security reasons, but I am seeing better performance. It seems to run smoother to. I don't know why. But there is a difference on AM4.
I heard linux give massive performance boost for Zen 5 gaming. Will you test that?
it is also hidden in windows 10
i remember the TLB bug in Amd Cpus
VLDL characters small figures:)
I doubt it is a "windows bug" so much as just windows crapware such as random auto-installed market apps being forced on normal user accounts but not on the admin account.
On a tangent, instead of using the hidden administrator account, I'd be curious to see you or anyone test with "Run as administrator" on the normal account. If that also gets a performance boost, I guess my theory would be wrong. Another test could be to have both accounts logged in at once with "switch user" instead of "logout" from the normal account. I'd expect that to lower the results you get from the administrator account too.
But essentiallay, if there is only one account on PC, then nothing here is relevent, as it would make it the admin by default
lol I literally checked my UAC to check i was admin now lol hahahahaha
Wintel😂
It's nice to see that you continue to show Ted.
Question is if you run apps as Admin instead of the actual administrator account if it makes a difference…
This is the beauty of Companies listening to independent parties like Hardware Unboxed. Access to more Data. Companies want to produce competitive products which bring customers back, finding and fixing problems or potential problems allows companies to improve quality and perceived customer focused care. Having independent reviewers who are not 'paid' to produce favourable results is an edge which companies should consider as a potential edge on competitors who pay for 'good' reviews.
now we have to wait for windows 12 to see if microsoft will fix this, or wait 2 years to see if they will investigate it
Ah yes…. Windows…..
Making the computing experience worse by design each and every update.
Let us not forget: "You don't Need to KNOW THESE THINGS" …. love microsoft…..
Good to know…
Hm what about am4?
Greed will kill the beast as usual… we all loose because of money
Fecking windows 11… performance on the table the whole time
The bug is sponsored by intel I bet
Test on Linux let's see
You should not have to go through all of this. AMD just needs to go back to the days when they had CPU drivers, and that should solve all problems.
I have downgraded to windows 10 today and with administrative account enabled, 8% improvement of average framerate. Memory usage is lower at startup. Overclocking is slightly stable than 11. Using 7800x3d +7900xtx❤
Does this affect Windows 10 and 7800x3D?
The problem is AMD..it always has been. I started in the 1980s / early 90s a proponent of Z80 and AMD. Just like games – because it "seemed" like there was more speed per dollar. Eventually I learned and grew up. There's always a cost. Just stay away from AMD and you will be better off.
activating the Administrator account without a password is a TERRIBLE idea
would have liked to see intel as well.
you could at least have tested one game like cyberpunk with it to see.
I used that Administrator account on my 14700k and 7900XT gaming PC and made no difference on 3 games I use to check my computer performance. Shadow of the Tomb Raider,F1 2020 and Horizon Zero Dawn. At 4k Setting.
how does this relate to a normal account with UAC – off?
and could it be related to the microsoft account? there is also a hidden option to make a ''local'' account on windows 11 without network.
It's always someone else's fault with AMD.
Thanks Steve. Super interesting and well presented. I look forward to learning what Microsoft does with this.
It probably affects all the multi ccd chips. Their driver probably needs elevated permissions to communicate with the kernel so it can take over thread scheduling and core parking. I don’t think it’s the game itself that needs admin privileges. Maybe that’s why the thread parking part worked, because really you can do that from task manager, but the load was bouncing around from core to core a lot more than you would expect to see. That’s my guess, and probably why they say it doesn’t affect all core loads only burst.
I just ordered parts for a 7900X3D build, when I was shopping it was $30 more than the 7800X3D so figured might as well get those extra cores
This creates a question, last time you found windows 10 faster than Windows 11 – was it because it is actually faster or because of this bug?
Anyway, please test zen 5 in windows 10
Let's give all these shady games kernel level privilege for 10 more FPS…
Yeah very smart move there.
microsoft watafck
I wonder if this is why Elden Ring stutters for me, i doubt it, but i will live in hope 😂
It changes nothing if it affects zen 4 and *5 lol
Hey HUB Team, would you please consider enabling the Join feature here on YouTube to enable support here aswell? I know I can sign up for Floatplane or Patreon, but I like to keep these things centralized and would love to support you here. I am not sure as to why you have not already enabled it here, probably as YouTube launched this feature later and also may be taking a larger cut compared to those competing platforms for support, but I would have no problem paying a little more if you adjusted your prices to reflect that, so that the net support amount would be equal for you. Thank you in advance.
Just did a quick test on my 5800x3d in cp2077
Running 3 laps around the cherry blossom market gave me an avg of 79.5 with 1% low of 49.6
Did the same as administrator and got an avg of 93.8 and 1% low of 56.4
Same settings, 720p low with high crowd density.
Not an extensive test and just tested once per account so run to run variance might be skewing the results a bit. But interesting nonetheless.
EDIT: okay, so I actually decided to redo the test after posting. It seems my first test was an outlier. While I'm still consistently getting higher avg fps on admin account, it seems to be less than my initial test, with none of the admin tests getting below 90. Meanwhile on the normal account the averages end up in the mid to high 80s.
It's interesting, running as admin can make games in w11 faster than in w10.
https://youtu.be/abXKDUESFKs?t=246
https://youtu.be/D1INvx9ca9M?t=336
The last of us part 1:
7700x running on w11 as regular user in both videos shows exactly 175 fps in.
7700x[Admin] on w11 – 182 fps
7700x[w10] – 177 fps.
Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty
7700x[w11] – 149 fps
7700x[w11][admin] – 161 fps
7700x[w10] – 153 fps
Microsoft does claim that installing Windows will lead to different results, this to increase security by creating less of a mono culture.